Comments on: Against Story https://booklifenow.com/2011/05/against-story/ Booklife gave you the platform. Booklife Now is your expansion kit. Fri, 23 Mar 2012 23:06:24 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.2.5 By: Point of view, the T-V distinction and the Ingeborg Bachmann prize | Cora Buhlert https://booklifenow.com/2011/05/against-story/comment-page-1/#comment-10526 Tue, 12 Jul 2011 14:35:19 +0000 https://booklifenow.com/?p=1660#comment-10526 […] dislike of first person narration and flat out refuse to read it. Nick Mamatas goes a bit into this hatred of first person narration in this post at Booklife Now (He is wrong about Gustav Freytag, […]

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By: Editorial: Women in SF, and Diversity in Anthologies « The World SF Blog https://booklifenow.com/2011/05/against-story/comment-page-1/#comment-10524 Thu, 07 Jul 2011 10:08:25 +0000 https://booklifenow.com/?p=1660#comment-10524 […] all there is to it. Nick Mamatas does a very good job dismantling the “good stories” argument. You should read the whole thing, but here is a quote: “Good story” pushes the issue of who […]

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By: Jeff https://booklifenow.com/2011/05/against-story/comment-page-1/#comment-10448 Sat, 18 Jun 2011 13:27:40 +0000 https://booklifenow.com/?p=1660#comment-10448 AFT.

Please write a similar diatribe against "the Hero's Journey." The world would be a better place.

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By: Why this doesn’t suck: The A.I. War book one: The Big Boost « davidlomax https://booklifenow.com/2011/05/against-story/comment-page-1/#comment-10292 Mon, 23 May 2011 22:04:52 +0000 https://booklifenow.com/?p=1660#comment-10292 […] Nick Mamatas, wrote a great post recently on Jeff Vandermeer’s Booklife site, called “Against Story” in which he criticised the hegemony of traditional story values, as often represented by […]

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By: SF Signal: All Stories Are Speculative Fictions: An Inquisitive Supposition https://booklifenow.com/2011/05/against-story/comment-page-1/#comment-10259 Thu, 19 May 2011 17:36:17 +0000 https://booklifenow.com/?p=1660#comment-10259 […] . . . It implies process or progress in time: begin, proceed, end."And then this observation from Nick Mamatas, talking about the same idea but from Freytag:"It's a great little structure. I use it, I teach it. […]

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By: Leona Wisoker https://booklifenow.com/2011/05/against-story/comment-page-1/#comment-10262 Thu, 19 May 2011 15:10:43 +0000 https://booklifenow.com/?p=1660#comment-10262 I'm now officially hooked on reading whatever else you write here during your guest blog time. Well done, given my limited time to read blogs; well done. Really, really interesting thoughts to chew over. And thank you! :)

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By: Ben Jones https://booklifenow.com/2011/05/against-story/comment-page-1/#comment-10211 Mon, 16 May 2011 18:59:16 +0000 https://booklifenow.com/?p=1660#comment-10211 I could almost argue with you here, and I almost did. Because I'm always on the lookout for a good story. The thing is that for me, the definition of "good" includes "new" and interesting. And on that basis there are bery good, apolitical reasons to care whether or not women and people of color are being represented. If they're not, the playground is becoming that much smaller.

Which is not to say that every female/black/Latin/gaywhat have you author is worth reading. God no. But if a collection of fifteen stories contains work by fifteen white American males who stick their dicks into fifteen bottle-blond wives, that collection of stories isn't as good as it could be.

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By: John Barnes https://booklifenow.com/2011/05/against-story/comment-page-1/#comment-10210 Mon, 16 May 2011 18:25:51 +0000 https://booklifenow.com/?p=1660#comment-10210 And once again, it is time to requote (and I've truncated from Delaney as well, so we're now at 3rd level truncation, till there's not much left of poor Forster):

"If you ask one type of man, 'What does a novel do?' he will reply placidly: 'Well–I don't know–it seems a funny sort of question to ask–a novel's a novel–well, I don't know–I suppose it kind of tells a story, so to speak.' He is quite good-tempered and vague, and probably driving a motor bus at the same time and paying no more attention to literature than it merits. Another man, whom I visualize as on a golf-course, will be aggressive and brisk. He will reply: 'What does a novel do? Why, it tells a story of course, and I've no use for it if it didn't. I like a story. Very bad taste on my part, but I like a story. You can take your art, you can take your literature, you can take your music, but give me a good story. And I like a story to be a story, mind, and my wife's the same way.' And a third man he says in a sort of dropping regretful voice, 'Yes–oh dear, yes–the novel tells a story.' I respect and admire the first speaker. I detest and fear the second. And the third is myself. Yes–oh, dear, yes–the novel tells a story . . . The more we look at the story (the story that is a story, mind), the more we disentangle it from the finer growth it supports, the less we shall find to admire. It runs like a backbone–or may I say a tapeworm, for its beginning and end are arbitrary . . ."

E.M. Forster, Aspects of the Novel, as quoted and elided by Samuel R. Delany in About Writing

Actually I find story absolutely fascinating, which is why I sometimes write Freytagian "good stories" and about as often write ones that cause the sort of reader who has been to a fiction workshop to run in circles and make strange noises. Incidentally, Nick, I hope you'll get around to taking a whack at "community" before you're done. Ideally followed by a whack at "individualism."

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By: SF Signal: SF Tidbits for 5/16/11 https://booklifenow.com/2011/05/against-story/comment-page-1/#comment-10190 Mon, 16 May 2011 06:09:02 +0000 https://booklifenow.com/?p=1660#comment-10190 […] Steampunk Exhibition Video is finally up!Rachel Acks on Spec Tech: Making Mountains.Nick Mamatas on Against Story. Iain M Banks on Science fiction is no place for dabblers.Shelly Li on Editorial Notes from Your […]

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By: Sean Craven https://booklifenow.com/2011/05/against-story/comment-page-1/#comment-10182 Sun, 15 May 2011 16:39:37 +0000 https://booklifenow.com/?p=1660#comment-10182 Hey, Nick.

If you tell a group of commercial fiction writers that sometimes the appropriate response to a work of fiction is to fold the book in your lap and spend a few minutes in contemplation?

They will look at you as though you'd just vomited-up a dozen squirrels, each of whom unrolled a mucus-covered banner reading, "We mourn the passage of Bin Laden," and then make outraged squealing noises punctuated the word 'sales.'

Bad moment, dude. Bad moment.

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